What is your asking price?

[Derek DeFields]

This is the age old musician quandry.

Drumming is fun and so the problem is, most people would do it for free if it was music they liked. Also, there's something to be said for playing "good" music for little to no money. Keith Carlock got the Steely Dan gig because one of the SD guys sat in with Wayne Krantz. The Steely Dan gig brought the Sting gig.

Because so much of success in music is who you know, I say you have to play as much as possible including the free gigs. It DOES hurt, but the reality is those gigs typically don't pay. It's not like if you say no, the next guy gets $500. You always meet other musicians on a gig and people hear you play. If you like the music enough to go do it, I say always do the gig.

If you don't like the music, then it's your call and obviously if you have another source of income you may choose to pass. (I would)

[FuseU1]

Ah, sorry...to answer the actual ?:

Gas is included in the overall price if it's immediately local. That's just understood.

For a decent commute, figure the miles/mileage & add it to the base price.

For smokey pool hall / bar gigs: ask $100, but be ready to perhaps take $75 - your call. I started my business career back in '82 while still at a "tender young age" at $40 a night in a small smokey hang [I thought I was in pig-slop heaven!], which eventually graduated to a whopping $50 a night, 9 or 9:30p to 1:30 or 2a. 40-45 min on, 15-20 off. But the yrs have since gone by, & cost of living / "inflation" has gone up. ;c)

Corp gigs: like was said earlier, $2-500, depending on who what where.

If you're OTR, don't expect less than $125-150-175-200 a day, unless you're touring w a national recording headliner omn a major label, then it's much more & usually [closer to] union wages anyway.

Always inquire about accomodations, AWA food? perdiem on those that apply [corp, parties, etc]

Studio is another matter...I've done them, but I don't really consider the scene here to be like that of LA. That's between you & the artist or engineer or producer. I've done them for as little as $50 for friends, $75 for smaller studios. But I haven't really done these for a career. I'm predominantly the live & touring type. But I am dipping more into recording our own stuff, like Altered does... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]

Derek is right, touching on AWA echoing my sentiments in that part of my post. He just said it more nicely [AWA succinctly]. [img]wink.gif[/img]

This raises the whole "problematica" of the "musical whore"... [img]tongue.gif[/img] There are so many folks out there ready & willing to play just to get their musical roxov, AWA the attention...but this eventually wears thin after trying it exclusively as a living, believe me.

The prob is, sheisters & shrewd business people alike understand this. They learn this of musos in general [the eMpTyV / VeHklempt1 syndrome doesn't help the plight either] - that a relatively novice muso will play for next to nothing just to be able to PLAY. Besides, why, just think of the girls [boys?!] who my be looking at me! /;c/ Fuhgidabowdit...

Yep, the competition is fearsome sometimes. That's why it's extremely important to be "on your game" - a pro, who carries themself in a pro manner, w working gear that also looks good, reliable transpo, & the ears & playg skills to match. Did I mention, time skills?
But we all already know all that's a given. ;c)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 09, 2005 03:24 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>

[tombo74]

The corporate gigs I do pay ~ 250-300$. Sometimes there's a meal and/or drinks and bandleader will pay for parking. Randy is right, at the local level (where most of us probably are), rarely you'll be asked how much you want. You get a call, it pays this and you take it or leave it. These are local figures; if international top pros would chip in, you would see them go way up.

But I often played for a lot less than that and seldom for a lot more.
Once I've been asked to be in the house band of a new club where they wanted Friday night jazz jam. We would get a % of the door. 1st week I played for 7$, 2nd week for 2 beers, and then split. It was fun, but it was at a time where I was trying to make a living at it.

On the other hand, I once got a call from a singer who produced his own shows. He asked me if I was the best [img]confused.gif[/img] ... You could tell the guy was an amateur and had no clue of how the business worked. I think he took the union book and called guys in alphabetical order (my name being near the top) and asked this question. Feeling that, and having nothing to loose, I said: "Of course!". Okay, so the show is on this date at Montreal's Place des Arts, we rehearse the day before, and I'll pay you $$$$. Well...okay...DEAL! I never thought I would play at this prestigious place for that much dough; man, he could have got Paul Brochu for less than that! So I'm there with the "best" (read: guys wise enough to say they're the best to get the gig). Keyboardist/MD happened to be a top TV pro who had played with Celine Dion, Aldo Nova,...Gig went smoothly, and was one of the best I played, we did a couple more. The guy was not the best singer in the world, but a cool amateur with pockets deep enough to pay for all this.

When I started playing in clubs in 1986, owners paid 400$/night for a band. And today, for the ones that still pay, it's the same amount. It seems that inflation doesn't count for musicians. Bands went from 5, to 4, to 3, to duet with sequences to one-man band. Today's mainstream rock has less keys, so we see the resurgence of larger bands in clubs but they are teenagers. I might do a rock gig in a club once in a while. But they have to be sufficiently spaced in time so that I have the time to forget how painful it was the last time to play until 3am, tear down, drive one-hour back home, go to sleep at 5am and having the kids jumping on me at 6:30am screaming: "Wake up dad, it's a beautiful day!!" [img]graemlins/sleepy.gif[/img]

[FuseU1]

As Tombo said; locally, though, unfortunately, it's often still usually a take it or leave it scenario, with not nearly as much pull power as at the "upper levels"....

When I started playing in clubs in 1986, owners paid 400$/night for a band. And today, for the ones that still pay, it's the same amount. It seems that inflation doesn't count for musicians. Bands went from 5, to 4, to 3, to duet with sequences to one-man band

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He is right there also. Inflation is imposed in the inverse upon hapless musicians worldwide...
[img]frown.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_down.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/grrr.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/gulp.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sure.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 09, 2005 03:26 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>

[CLWarunki]

Ok, it's not a delusional 4am for me anymore...

Some good points made, but really the "hobby" drummers playing for free are taking NOTHING away from the pro drummers out there... do you think a hobbyist drummer will get a gig over a pro? Probably not.

It is 80% about who you know in music biz... so you gotta play as much as you can, with as many musicians in as many places, wether it's for $1'000'000.00 or $0.00.

LOL - matricks... hahah you loon! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[FuseU1]

Actually, Chris, you are pretty much right AW. [img]wink.gif[/img]
In the grand scheme, it really isn't going to make a real dent. Good point.

I went back & re-read Gary's post: "...or it's studio work (which is usually a pain in the ass)I charge as much as I can get out of principle or I don't bother" Pretty much says it all. No harm done. His choice. It's all good.

I was responding more to the content of cjbdrm's post. I'll let the rant stand out of principle of it's own commentary of details [I didn't necessarily say, "merit"]... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Holla'...

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 09, 2005 05:45 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>

[cjbdrm]

No offense, but the 'hobbyists' playing gigs for free or for very little money make it harder for the 'pros' trying to make a living- or at least get paid what they're worth. It sets a precedent.

I've got a day gig out of necessity, but I would never play for free. My talent is worth something. I'd rather stay at home than be exploited by a club owner or bandleader. That's the one thing I don't miss about working in NYC. (That's another sore subject...)

[mja61]

Good point, but I'll counter with this: Anton Fig touched on this topic briefly at a clinic. He said that often times he'll play gigs he wants play "only for cab fare or sometimes even for free."

I'm not qualified to have an opinion on this becuase I'm a hobbyist drummer (at best), but I find Anton's thoughts to put some good perspective on it.

[Rhythmatist]

I don't believe in doing the freebie either, unless it's a session for some up and commer that I might consider doing on spec in hopes that person will go to the big show and remember that I "helped" him or her get there. Aside from that, "show me the money." I have a day job in a corporate environment where, after 11 years I have been "promoted" several times for little or no raise (I actually made more 6 years ago than I do now, in bonuses and benefits). The corporate world has seen fit to reward hard work and dedication by putting their hands in our pockets and taking whatever benefits and perks they can from the little guys and hiring more Executive Vice Presidents, CEO's, CFO's, COO's, ASSO's...

Enough of that rant. All of the gigs I take pay something because it took me a long time to hone what meager talent I do have and gear does not come cheap either. And when there's a family involved with 2 kids in private schools (both A students, they will support me well when I'm too old to remember their names) the $40 I make for a 2 hour easy load-in jazz gig on a wednesday night will buy pizza for dinner on thursday. However, if there's a gig that I deem a pain in the arse, I will expect someone to pay dearly for my services. That doesn't mean I say I want x amount right off the bat. That assumes my name is Vinnie Weckl and I'd better back that up. I'll first ask what the gig pays and if it's not up to what I want I'll usually say something like, "I don't know, it's downtown traffic and the Drake is a real pain to load in and you know how expensive parking is." At that point, if they want me bad enough they will up the ante. If not, then probably any schmuck with an export kit will do and I'll either look for something else or stay home and watch tv with the family. At least having the day job allows me options. I remember playing for a living and doing some pretty sick gigs because I had to, as time would running short on the calendar and I took something just to fill the night.

Now, if you are one of the top cats in town and the phone is always ringing, go for it. Get as much as you can for every gig. I see nothing wrong with that. But if you're not the first call guy, then I think you wait untill they tell you what the gig pays and then you determine; if all the conditions are right is that amount fair or not? If not that's when you negotiate. It's not wrong to ask for extras if you truly believe the money is not what it should be. I caution against going too far, however, unless you have that something extra to offer talentwise (and personality as well) as you will soon develop a reputation for being that average player who demands too much and you'll find the phone will ring less and less. Let your rep build first, then as your phone rings more ask for more.

[Suspiria]

Originally posted by Rhythmatist:
as your phone rings more ask for more.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a good guideline. I can definitely see how it's a matter of starting low and gradually working yourself up the ladder, making sure to not outpace your improvement of reputation!